Al Gough & Miles Millar love their show. Thursday night's seminar left me with that one, unshakable belief. They learned how to do it right the hard way, and they fight for it on a daily basis so that others don't compromise their vision. The bumpy ride they took along the way made a very entertaining two hours.

The Writers on Writing seminar was moderated by F.X. Feeney, who started the guys off talking about the wide variety of work that they did. He moved them from talk of features, where they started their career, to the world of television, where they are currently based, while still chasing the occasional feature. G&M spoke freely about the skill, the politics and the serendipity that all mix to make or break careers--their own, in particular.

On their well meshed partnership and how they met:

The two met in film school at USC as students in the Peter Stark Producing Program. One of the classes they were required to take in learning how to be producers and executives was a screenwriting class. They partnered up for projects which included reading one another's scripts and stories, making notes on them, and swapping back and forth. During the summer, they both had internships at different production companies, at which time they came up with their first feature--a movie featuring a cop and an orangutan. No, you read that right. They are apparently always looking forward and saw this as a movie with potential sequels and a cartoon, and even plush orangutans--a marketing dream. Once they had the script finished, the problem became getting an agent. They finally snagged one, and serendipity stepped in when the script sold on the weekend following the release of Ace Ventura.

Doing this first project allowed them to learn to work together and the studio was hot to make the film. They had the director, the orangutan, the budget, everything--but they couldn't find an actor who wanted to play opposite an orangutan. The studio tried Bill Murray, Jeff Daniels (recently off Dumb & Dumber) and no one took the role. They learned their first lesson of screenwriting: You have to write parts that actors want to play.

When it became apparent that the cop movie was going nowhere, they put the second rule of screenwriting into play: Beg. They were basically hat in their hands, asking anyone and everyone to give them a job, and some of the jobs they were given along the way led to the third rule of screenwriting: Just because you can do it--don't do it. Bad movies and scripts are never a good idea, even if they're all that's available at the time. The two learned through hard knocks along the way. They both laugh when Al admits, "Our career was the lemon in the lemonade"

Luckily, they happened upon producer Joel Silver, who is two very important things: loyal to his writers and a man than can get movies made. It was Silver who led the duo to Lethal Weapon 4. At an industry party, they were told to develop a pitch by Monday morning for the movie. G&M thought what could they lose at this point and spent the weekend hammering out the pitch for the studio. It was nabbed by TPTB and they began work on the feature, while enrolled in classes to teach them how to write for TV sitcoms and drama. Shortly after, the duo was hired to write for television's Timecop as story editors, which tied in with the classes and the feature work was a good learning experience. They learned to juggle, they learned to write different forms of media, and they learned the ups and downs of getting fired and hired in the endless cycle of the industry.

On the mechanics of how they write together:

The two work in the same room, in the beginning, in Miles' house because he likes to write in his home and Al can't stand to write in his. Usually they will break a story in a diner or restaurant, before they head back to start the outlines and actual writing process. While Miles prefers to write on the computer, Al does all of his writing on legal pads in longhand. Miles says the fun part is the writing, and that they are both heavy into outlines on every scene. They go through at least three detailed outlines for one show.

On features:

They came into the game working buddy movies, and knew from the beginning that the secret was not to have an allstar game. For a successful film, you need one star and one character who's lesser known or who offsets the star when they play off each other.

Both Miles and Al agree that you come into a feature expecting to be fired along the way. "You can only be pleasantly surprised," Al says, later adding that on one film, they were the fourth, sixth and ninth writers on the movie. That kind of firing and rehiring down the road is not uncommon, especially when a feature is into rewrites. They were finally approached with a request to develop an idea for a new Jackie Chan movie that Chan himself had an idea for. "Jackie wants to do a western," they were told. "Okay. So what's the idea?" they asked. "Uhh, Jackie wants to do a western." That was the sum total of the background they were given to work with, and they took the idea and ran, creating Shanghai Noon.

Originally the character that Owen Wilson plays in the film was envisioned as a guy who looks at the outlaws lifestyle with the same awe with which most guys today look at the lifestyle of a rockstar. By the time Shanghai Knights rolled around, Wilson had decided the secret to playing his role was "Maybe I should just be scared of this guy for the whole time." They said Owen was a great example of a person taking the material you give them and working with it, and adding their own interpretations along the way.

Noon tested so well that M&G were immediately signed to pen a sequel. They didn't think they'd ever actually get the film made, but Disney approached a couple of years later, ready to greenlight the film based on how well it had done in video sales. The moderator pointed out that the Shanghai films gave Jackie much more dialogue than any of his previous films had given him, and the two laughed over that. Al said that they did that intentionally and that when he read the script, Jackie's initial reaction was "Why so much dialogue? I cannot say all these words!" But in the end, he did an excellent job with the dialogue and, of course, the action sequences.

When asked about writing action sequences, we learned that they write out all action sequences, in movies and on their television show. They said that crap you hear about the director's vision is a myth. That action sequences are as carefully planned and choreographed as dance sequences in a musical, because they are either to forward the action or are show stoppers. Once they are written out, they move to story boards, then someone like Jackie can look at it and know the points he has to hit along the way in his sequence.

On the road to Smallville: Working on Timecop had provided G&M with invaluable lessons in the things that they did not want to do on their own television show. They knew that they wanted to staff their own show, and not go in trying to do every job themselves. They wanted to be fighting, to be in control, to never compromise, because they had seen all of these things happen and the project suffering because of the political atmosphere of the industry. Their chief goal was always to protect the vision of their show. For instance, on other projects they were affiliated with, they had noticed that the director took notes from no one, that he/she was basically given free reign to do whatever was their vision. On their show, they wanted input so that the director took notes from them.

The first show idea that they pitched to the WB was a series featuring Lois Lane in college. They knew that the WB had rights to DC properties, and thought they'd never get their hands on a property like Superman himself, so they made a pitch for what they thought they could get. At the same time (2000), Peter Roth was trying to develop a series featuring a young Batman. That was smacked down in favor of the lucrative movie franchise for Batman that the WB also controlled. G&M then realized that Superman had always done well on television and decided to pitch the idea for a pilot.

Superman is the ultimate immigrant story, according to Al. He comes here as an orphan, grows up in the midwest and becomes a wild success. The character obviously had popular roots. The problem came in how to spin a potential 100 hours of storytelling out of something that happens in a pilot. Basically their problem was, what will keep Clark busy in Smallville? So the whole idea was born of the meteor shower and radiation from these rocks that would affect humans who had been exposed to them, as well as affecting Clark.

G&M had learned from DC Comics that Clark Kent became Superman because of his parents. If he had landed in another field, he likely would never have turned into Superman. Despite pressures from the industry to lose the parents and focus on the kids' stories, G&M held onto the Kents and made them younger than the traditional, elderly Kents of the comics. Smallville was born from a last ditch attempt to do a television show after failed pilots and miserable experiences as staff on other shows. The duo decided that if it didn't work, they would leave television. It turned out to be their biggest success, thus far.

Smallville became, in their minds, the journey of Clark Kent and Lex Luthor, and how not just one or two choices, but an entire lifetime of them, would shape the two into the men they would become. Since neither creator was a fan of comics, they felt unburdened by comics canon. The research that they did to on the Clark Kent backstory showed them that Superman had evolved over the years. The story has been shaped by each retelling, and Smallville would be no different.

Originally, they heard a lot of scoffing in regards to Superman. "Oh yeah, the guy in his underwear with the S on his chest." G&M decided to somehow work that image into the pilot, and the idea of the school prank came about. Once the pilot was completed, they tested it on an audience of 12-14 year old boys and girls (a painful process involving creators watching through glass as kids adjust dials according to scenes they like and don't like). At some point during the filming, the tape goofed up and while they were fixing the tech problems, some of the girls were asking the boys in the audience what they were watching. The boys had figured it out with the words Smallville, Clark Kent and Lex Luthor. They told the girls that this was a show about Superman. The girls themselves had no idea.

At that point, the suits realized that they were actually talking to an entire demographic that was completely unfamiliar with Superman. Marketing was put on the task of figuring out how to advertise a show that would be recognizable and appealing to both male and female viewers. Al & Miles saw the result a few weeks later. Al recounts his reaction: "Holy crap, they've got him on a cross on the poster." Marketing to young girls was solved by putting the hot boy on the poster, and an ad campaign was born. The question and answer part of the seminar opened up at this point and the audience was given an opportunity to approach the duo about a variety of subjects.

Season one of Smallville seemed to have a lot of heart in it that was missing in season two, or seemed to take a backseat to the action. Why?

Al said there was actually more heart in season two. Their special effects budget was cut by $100,000 from season one, which meant less action. They beefed up the heart, which came largely in the form of more romance on the Clark/Lana end. There was also a step back away from some of the emotional aspect because Clark was investigating his origins, and that led to more sci-fi territory with the ship. They decided to blow the ship up at the end of the season because they didn't like the idea of having talking props around on the show in the future.

How do you manage audience expectations and your own vision?

Al says there are always signposts that you work towards on the way to the end of any season. Miles adds that there is always the temptation to go too far, too fast. They've had to learn to pace themselves.

How much do actors feed into what you're doing as writers?

Both men took this opportunity to praise Tom Welling, who came to the show virtually off the modeling runways. They said this wasn't such a problem in the beginning, because Clark Kent's supposed to be somewhat of a stiff, but that Tom is very dedicated, and very serious about wanting to learn his craft and he always rises to the challenges that they write for him.

Do you use notes from the network? Are they valuable?

"Shitty notes are shitty notes," Al says, "But good notes, you take." He says the WB gives good notes, and that while the script is in pre-production stages, they'll take notes and input from anywhere along the line. If they're good notes, they're always looking to improve on their scripts. Miles adds that the most important thing is to be honest with yourself about your work. The men agree that if three notes on the same thing say it's a problem, then it's a problem, and that you have to remove your ego to actually address the issue.

Smallville is a rare, realistic portrayal of farming on television. What research did they do?

Al grew up on a farm in a small town. The audience member who asked the question thanked him for avoiding the overall-wearing stereotype.

What input does Tollin-Robbins have on Smallville?

Tollin-Robbins has no daily influence on the show. There are multiple producers on board with a project like Smallville, but G&M fight very hard to keep creative control in their own hands. For instance, it was suggested that they lose the parents, but instead, they made the parents their guiding force on the show, who were shaping the lives of these kids who are the main characters.

How involved are they in the actual writing on the show?

According to Al, they take a final pass at every script that comes down the production line. In season one, they wrote all of the eps, pretty much. They didn't put their names in the credits, because the people who wrote the bulk of it and broke the idea, etc. were the ones who deserved the credit, but they still had their hands directly in every episode that was made. This season, they have been fortunate enough to have some writers who are now in their second season and who can be relied on to carry an episode all the way down the road, with only notes here and there from Al & Miles. As producers and writers, they're grateful for this, because as writers, there are only so many tricks in your bag, and having an experienced writing staff brings more tricks to the table.

How has season one differed from season two in terms of development?

Al says they weren't really and truly happy until they had X-Ray on the table, in season one. The pilot and the second ep were one long set up, and the third episode they both agreed seemed surreal, like it wasn't even something they had worked on. By the fourth episode with X-Ray, they were able to see the first weaving together of the threads they had been spinning in set-up--and the set-up was very important. Test audiences had shown them that they couldn't take it for granted that viewers knew who Superman or Lex Luthor were, or that they knew what Kryptonite was. They needed a season to set these things up and establish them. So a lot of the season one storylines actually were held up until season two, while they worked on the introduction and foundation of the show. Storylines such as Red K and Pete learning the secret were actually storylines hatched in season one that had to wait for their time. Season three will allow for further story and character development. The network is actually very good about helping them pace the show and pulling them back when they want to rush ahead for a storyline.

Would they take on spec scripts?

There was a resounding yes from both Al & Miles, who called it 'our dream" to be able to find these great stories and use them, but they made it clear that the decision was not theirs to make. The studio won't let them take in just any idea, it has to come through the high offices and work its way through the filters to the production office. They reiterated that basically, sending a spec script to the show was pointless. They're not allowed to touch them.

Any advice on any particular novels or reading material that would help make a person a better screenwriter?

Al says you should read scripts if you want to be a screenwriter. Miles added that USC has a fabulous library that houses some of the best in the business, through the years. They both agree that reading scripts, good ones and bad ones, is the best way to learn how to do it right.

What's your average day like as writer/producers?

They usually work from 9:00 am to 6:30 or 7:00pm., six to seven days a week. They do use a little time management within that time frame. Most of their writing is done in the morning, they're just not evening writers. That frees up the afternoon for work related to production of the show. Sometimes, they will vary the schedule. For instance, if they know they need to work on the show, they'll do that for the entire day, whether it's production or writing an episode. They also hand tasks off to each other. If one doesn't want to take a call, sit in on a meeting, etc. then the other will.

What are some of the challenges of working with Smallville and television?

The hardest thing they have to deal with as writers on a television show is not getting bored and lazy, since you have the same characters you're working with every day. They like Smallville, because the superhero is a modern, mythological character. They've often said Smallville and the story of Superman is an epic story in an intimate setting. They also like knowing the ending point of their story. Al says he's frequently asked "How's Smallville going to end?" His reply: "Badly."

How much do you use internet websites to gauge fan reaction?

While Al constantly scans websites for feedback, Miles finds it depressing. Another example of trading off unwanted tasks. Al says he enjoys the sort of instantaneous feedback it gives you for fan reaction to something that you thought really sucked or something you were pleased with, in general. He does say they're wary of getting "fan fucked", in the sense that Lois & Clark was when they gave into fan demand for Lois & Clark to marry, leading to a ratings decline afterwards. He does say there's nothing like a trip to the fan boards to see how passionate viewers can really be about the show.

You seem like an old married couple. Have either of you had a 'dalliance' with anyone else, professionally?

Al says they were friends first, and it grew into a working relationship. After much laughter around the room, he added that if they had sex, that would be exactly like marriage. More laughter followed, before he went on to say that a lot of people said the rotten thing about being in a partnership must be sharing the money, but he said the benefit is that you share duties on the show. They're both very grateful for that.

What have you learned from you experience as producers and writers on Smallville?

Leave yourself room for happy accidents. They point proudly to the fact that Glover in the role of Lionel Luthor is a perfect example. He turned out so well in the part that they made a brief appearance turn into recurring, then they brought him on as a regular for season two. They also have learned the skill of the storyline arc within a season. Every seven or eight eps, you complete a mini-arc and leave it with a cliffhanger that will pull the viewers into the next mini-arc, and so on, through to the season finale.

Coming to the WB which has a primarily young demographic, did you watch other WB shows to get that teen feel?

Al admits to being a big fan of season one Dawson's Creek. He liked the smart way that it was set up, and the interesting way that it allowed teenagers to talk like adults. DC actually turned the tables so that the teens were the ones lending a guiding hand to their parents. He said they did the opposite of that when they created Smallville. They always intended for the parents to be the guiding forces for these kids.

Do you have any favorite scripts (meaning favorite films, not their own work)?

Miles: Men Don't Leave Al: Shawshank Redemption and Field of Dreams. They then spoke on a exercise they had once in a class where they were told to write down their favorite films. Then to write the producers of those films, the directors, the stars. Finally, they were asked to name the writers of the screenplays. Very few in the class could name them, Miles said he only managed one or two. It was a very humbling exercise to show them the way that writers slip under the radar in the industry.

What do you consider good notes on a script?

Al explained that good notes explain what's wrong in a way that you can understand, in order to fix it. Miles added that good notes are constructive criticism. They don't just say this is wrong, they say this doesn't work, how about this instead?

How do you use the writing staff on Smallville?

Scenes are "white boarded" with twelve page outlines. Both agree that it's really random who gets to write scripts. It's a very collaborative effort, with different people pitching and tweaking as they go along. It has very little in common with X-Files, which was used as an example of a show where everyone worked on their own pitches and then came to present them and one was chosen for that person to run with, on their own. It's much more of a community effort on the Smallville staff with lots of opportunities for notes along the way.

What's the biggest challenge with casting a television show?

Both Al and Miles agree that the thing you have to keep in mind is that these actors need to be people that you can live with seeing for potentially the next five years. For them, it was finding someone who held the attention of the people in the room when they were reviewing casting auditions. If someone can hold the attention of several people in a room, there's a good chance they might keep someone from changing a channel during a commercial.

Casting auditions were taken from sides (scenes) written specifically for actors to use in readings. The two sides that were written and used for the pilot were the Clark/Lana scene in the graveyard and the Lex/Clark scene where Lex asks if Clark believes man can fly. Again, they told the story of how Kristin's audition tape was grainy and not the best quality, but they saw her reading and were so taken by it, that they knew they had to snap her up before someone else did.

The role of Lex was the most difficult to cast. Rosenbaum had read once for the role, but he had a cold and didn't work well with the material. The network was pitching guys right and left for the role. At one point there was an audition for a Latino Lex. Rosenbaum finally came back for another reading and caught their attention by refusing to cooperate with the person holding the camera to film. They asked him to stand in one spot and he said no, I'm going to walk around, why don't you follow me. And they realized that they had someone here who was thinking out of the box. They also mentioned that they wanted a comedian for the role, because comedians have a charisma that pulls people in, and a vulnerability and neediness that bleeds through into their characters. They had to have a Lex who was magnetic enough to make the viewers believe that he could really pull all of these people into his world. If Lex hadn't been successfully cast, they knew the show would tank. Michael Rosenbaum turned out to be perfect for the part.

Smallville parallels many Greek myths. How much research goes into that?

Al's response, to much laughter, "There are only so many stories, and they told them first." They do pull from some of the greater tragedies for themes and ideas, but they said don't look for literal interpretations in Smallville. There was much laughter about Philip of Macedonia and Alexander the Great before the question and answer session drew to a close. I went into the program expecting industry chat and came out pleased to have learned some valuable behind-the-scenes secrets and tips, as well as interesting insight on the development of a show from conception to successful realization. A program available to us at the beginning of the seminar said Al & Miles regard themselves as the most charming writing/producing duo in all of Los Angeles. After spending an evening listening to their banter, I'm a believer.

BIG thanks to Wendi for this article!

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